Which "room contents" table do you use? Or what do you use instead? I'm curious, especially about acceptable amounts of "empty" rooms. I've looked in several books and have seen a wide array:
16% in BFRPG (1-16 on d100)
33% in Rules Cyclopedia (1-2 on d6)
60% in 1e DMG (1-12 on d20)
70% in Scarlet Heroes (1-7 on d10)
Does a certain percentage work better for groups vs solo play?
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ReplyDeleteI'll be honest if I amdoing it solo, I tend to skip empty rooms.
ReplyDeleteBut I tend to just focus on the encounters and interesting moments and assume there's empty space inbetween, rather than mapping every meter.
If mapping,I like 1 in 6.
Dungeon Dozen by Jason Sholtis
ReplyDeleteThat's a good question. Unless I'm provided with one by the module, I'd probably make my own.
ReplyDeleteIvan Sorensen I would have thought the same, with solo players "glossing over" the empty rooms, so I was surprised to see Scarlet Heroes being such a high percentage of empty compared to those other games.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, The Red Tide says "one interesting room for every two boring ones", which is 66% empty if you take it that way.
Spencer Salyer Yeah, if running a normal game for a group, the empty rooms are useful because they give places to barricade and rest, retreat paths etc.
ReplyDeleteBut if it's just myself? I like to cut that stuff out, to be honest.
Plus, from a logical stand point, I always figured underground space is at a premium, so nobody would just leave it there empty.
As far as solo play, I can see "empty" being on the chart if for no other reason than to keep you guessing, but indeed it is more like a speedbump than it is adding to the "realism" like it might with a group. I'm not likely to roll again to add dressing/ambiance or anything like that, but a tactical retreat could happen I suppose.
ReplyDeleteWhich brings up another point: empty rooms don't necessarily have to stay empty (wandering monsters, maybe the characters "failed" any checks for treasure/doors the first time they were here, etc.)
"surprisingly", in a dungeon crawling, I use T&D dungeon procedure:
ReplyDeleteBasically 50% empty/not dangerous rooms in upper levels and 100% dangerous rooms (50% quite dangerous, 50% very dangerous) in the lower levels of the dungeon.
lostpangolin.files.wordpress.com - lostpangolin.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/bivius-tunnels-dragons-beta-5.pdf
I wouldn't have an empty room. Just rooms with no monsters, people, treasure, or traps. Just weird stuff. Possibly dangerous. Possibly useful.
ReplyDeleteSomething that purifies water. Something that uploads your consciousness to a cloud. Something that records your conversation and translates it to gibberish.
Four Against Darkness uses:
ReplyDeleteRooms: 9%
Corridors: 45%
Four Against the Abyss uses:
Rooms: 0%
Corridors: 36%
But they also have "search" rules and returning to a previous room rules.
When I was a kid, I used the DMG, but rolled 1d12+8 so it was only 25%. I've since modified the DMG chart (see here: http://aleaiactandaest.blogspot.com/p/appendix.html) so empty rooms come up on 1-4 (20%).
ReplyDeleteI always check for wandering monsters in every room/chamber & corridor that the PCs pass back through, so the empty rooms don't seem pointless. I've frequently had parties make a tactical retreat back into them to get more room to fight, too. Also, if the dungeon is part of a campaign rather than just a random dungeon adventure in an ill-defined milieu, I use the "empty" results to add background flavour.
That's a cool document. Do you have a PDF?
ReplyDeletehttp://elfmaidsandoctopi.blogspot.com/2018/05/planet-psychon-acidpunk-edition.html?m=1
ReplyDeleteelfmaidsandoctopi.blogspot.com - Planet Psychon Acidpunk Edition
I even have an illustration in it.
ReplyDeleteThis is a colossal book of tables which range wide in nature. Psychedelic Gonzo.
Gerard Nerval I agree. I think empty chambers are great, not just for giving the adventurers a break but also for giving background flavour to the dungeon. When playing my "Dungeon of Gevdrin's Tower" (using Schweig's Themed Dungeon Generator) I used the random dungeon dressing tables from the Labyrinth Lord AEC and the 1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide to give it the flavour of an abandoned wizard's dungeon.
ReplyDeleteInteresting responses, all, and quite the variety across the board. It seems like even those who prefer to use empty rooms tend towards a smaller percentage.
ReplyDeleteI like the 4AD distinction between rooms and corridors -- it would seem to make sense that smaller areas would have a smaller chance of containing something.
I'd already created my own table based on the 4AD chart and had a 28% empty chance (I like the 2d6 bell curve for arranging things by commonality), but seeing figures as high as 70% elsewhere had me second-guessing.
I'd also be interested to know how you guys handle hex contents -- same/similar chart or something totally different?
Spencer Salyer So far I've only used the solo wilderness exploration rules in Scarlet Heroes to randomly generate hex features. You roll a 1d8 and if the number is lower than the feature threshold (which starts at 1) then you find a random feature such as a cave or a ruin. Each time you roll over the feature threshold it increase by one. So the more you explore the more likely it is you will find a feature. Once you find a feature the threshold resets to 1. Scarlet Heroes also has a table for random terrain generation.
ReplyDeleteI'm also interested in using other tools - such as Rory's Story Cubes and the tables in the d30 Sandbox Companion from New Big Dragon - to randomly generate hex contents.
I use the default Gygax distribution or the Moldovay one.
ReplyDeleteEmpty (12), Monster Only (2), Monster & Treasure (3), Special or stairway (1), Trick/Trap (1), Treasure (1)
Monster (2), Trap (1), Special (1), Empty (2)
Then I roll to confirm on the trap if no rolls in between discover it.
For populating I have a giant list of dungeon dressing in Pythia. I just push a button and get back a random number of items.
**[In the Room] weapons, an altar, a person who is stuck**
The list includes everything from 'a butcher block' to 'the scent of perfume' to 'a weapon rack' so it's pretty comprehensive. Also fun to try to figure out what the wagon's doing in the alchemy lab under the mountain. :)