I like them both! I have a fantasy sandbox game that’s very much a sandbox, and I’m also running a Battletech game via MegaMek and the Against the Bot rules where I have story ideas planned months in advance (because work is boring and scrape paper is plentiful).
Blank slate. Sometimes I have a vague idea of the game I want to play, and I generate my PC(s) accordingly, but even then I give them a random start. Sometimes the random start takes on a life of its own and I end up with a totally different game than I had intended. If my initial idea still holds interest, I can always try to fit it in as a second adventure or make new characters and have another go.
The process of picking a system and tools does a lot to prime the pump for me. It's a blank slate, but I'm already world building before the first letter hits the page. Shameless day dreamer here.
I've been going more or less "blank slate"--nothing more than a concept of game I want to try and maybe a tool I want play around with. But, I'm becoming increasingly unsatisfied with this approach. Not that it's bad, per se. But it may not be what works best for me in all cases.
Right now, I'm playing around a bit with "game books" and soloing modules. Next, I think I'm going to try something involving a better defined setting and concept.
I dislike separating character knowledge from player knowledge, so if I have a story premise in mind, I will frame things such that I know only as much as the character knows. Otherwise, it would be better for me to be the GM and emulate the players .
it depends on the situation, sometimes I have an idea for an adventure (or an old rpg adventure which my group never completed in the old days) and I play it, sometimes I'm inspired by my player character, sometimes I play a T&D sandbox to start an adventure, sometimes I just randomly generate the mission.
I have trouble with this. If I have a vague story in mind, it's like my brain simply is incapable of thinking ahead and playing out the whole story in a minute or two. So I'm trying to start more with a character I want to try out and a completely randomly generated plot. I would love advice on the whole character vs. player knowledge piece if anyone has it!
So far, it's mostly been about the next game or the engine I want to try, initially. But, like Todd, ideas start forming early on and then the real struggle is restraint.
I've had great success with adventure seed generators kicking things off in full force. I was also very inspired by simply generating several NPCs with UNE and imagine the relationships and conflicts between those "personalities".
For me, it's a double edged sword: I love taking random results and making sense of them in context of the story, but it's also a thorn in my side trying to reel myself in from imagining all the possibilities.
Sure, this idea is most likely, but this one is also is also plausible and surprising! Then again, what if... (etc.)
It's fun, but exhausting, and often a poor use of my gaming time. I need to try some frameworks that assist in keeping things reasonable, easing that burden without impacting the fun.
I think I've started to feel that I (player and GM) out to know as much about the world as my character. It's one thing when I'm doing a "Stranger in a Strange Land" game, where the PC just showed up in ADVENTURE TOWN and everything is new and strange to them. Or if they have amnesia (a trope I use more than I should). But, if they have been in the noir city or the elven village or the wretched hive of scum and villainy before, then they should know something about the people who live there. And so should I. Otherwise, I'm left constantly rolling up NPCs for people like their neighbors, and that's stuff I should know about when determining the results of oracles.
"I would love advice on the whole character vs. player knowledge piece if anyone has it!"
When you're trying to avoid that player/character knowledge split, I think that the #1 thing is being conscientious to avoid omniscience. Anything that your character does not know is something that can't be treated as a fact. It's only a possibility that you as a player know about.
In my opinion, you shouldn't even attempt to confirm or deny a fact until your character is in a position to find out. Just leave it hanging there until such a time.
If you want to be even more hardcore, consider this:
Some GMs consider in-game player chatter to be in-character chatter.What if you considered your own in-game mental chatter to be in character mental chatter? In other words, if you find yourself thinking of some possibility, you should treat that thought as something that has also entered your character's mind.
Just remember, though, just because it entered your character's mind, it doesn't mean it's a fact. How your character reacts to these thoughts is in itself an interesting roleplaying exercise. Is she/he going to dismiss them as fanciful flights of imagination? Is she going to keep them in mind as a real possibility?
For me, that's going to be informed strictly by what's already been established as confirmed fact during the initial set up of the game's situation, and in the course of play.
If any of this doesn't make sense, or needs some examples, let me know.
Of course, the simplest way to avoid the split is to take on the role of the GM and emulate the PCs. But then, you have to be careful about that GM vs Player knowledge, because the GM is not omniscient regarding what the PCs are thinking or how they will act. :)
" If I have a vague story in mind, it's like my brain simply is incapable of thinking ahead and playing out the whole story in a minute or two."
Why would you ever want to do that? You can play to find out what happens; you don't actually need to plan out every outcome.
" I would love advice on the whole character vs. player knowledge piece if anyone has it!"
Well there isn't any difference between character knowledge and player knowledge so... :)
If you are having a hard time reconciling that your character knows, for example, how to kill a werewolf, even though they have never actually scene a werewolf before, remember there is such a thing as pop culture. It's the reason why you would know to try a stake/holy water/sunlight to kill sleeping vampire if they actually existed in real life: You haven't been living under a rock and have at least heard of what vampires are and what their weakness are. Same goes for you characters.
And when determining how true something is, and remains, that is only an oracle roll away...
It’s funny, but I’ve just been working on cleaning up a play report for the first game where I really got things together. It was an Edge of the Empire game with Perilous Intersections as the driver/solo engine. For that game and everything I’ve played since, I’ve found that starting with a character, a short term goal, some looming/vague opposition to that goal, and some longer term pressures on the character making the goal urgent tend to give me enough to work with to get started and let the game and story develop. One of the great things about FFG Star Wars is that it integrates pressure on characters that can generate some interesting goals to pursue (via Obligation in EOTE and presumably morality from Force and Destiny [which I’m dying to try out, but haven’t gotten to yet]). And the focus and integration on both overarching and scene goals in Perilous Intersections really made it clear that, for me at least, I need to start with those character goals. Depending on what mood I’m in, I might throw together a character with UNE and then figure out the setting to build around them and the system to use; alternatively big well defined settings can help inform the character and system. It might just be me, but I’ve found if I start out with some kind of story or plot in mind, unless it’s very loose and I’m uncertain where it’s going, I tend to struggle to start and stay interested in playing the game; play to find out what happens is kinda my mantra of late for solo role playing.
I would love advice on the whole character vs. player knowledge piece if anyone has it!
If it seems pretty obvious that my PC would know something based on their background, then they do. If there is reasonable doubt, I ask the Oracle (or sometimes make a skill roll, depending on the game).
I've spent years being a GM though, so I'm used to compartmentalising things. The NPCs in the world aren't omniscient, and go about their business in ignorance of PC plans and other facts about the world, even though I as the GM know them for certain. I just play my solo PCs the same way. Given that they know X but not Y, they would most definitely attempt Z...
Some games have skills that can be rolled to deduce or anticipate what an NPC will do. D6 Star Wars allows the use of the Investigation skill for such instances.
Spencer Salyer I'm in the same boat as you, seeing too many interesting choices when rolling through a game. I found that using one of the rules-light engines like Miso forced me to stick to the first two ideas which come to mind. After playing like that for a bit, I found it reigned in my imagination enough to keep the story flowing, which resulted in more interesting stories which actually have finishing points!
Now my problem is just taking the time to play. I've got three games going (one I'm blogging) and I'm having difficulty taking the time to move any of them forward. However, I have a good excuse for now: a complete health makeover, where a renewed interest in exercise has come to the forefront of my life. But two weeks of vacation is coming up soon, and I want to get at least one of the stories wrapped up during the holidays!
Most of the time, I just start with a blank slate with only one idea
ReplyDeleteTypically, just a setting then the character informs the story. Less frequently, a story idea and a character that suits.
ReplyDeleteI like them both! I have a fantasy sandbox game that’s very much a sandbox, and I’m also running a Battletech game via MegaMek and the Against the Bot rules where I have story ideas planned months in advance (because work is boring and scrape paper is plentiful).
ReplyDeleteBlank slate. Sometimes I have a vague idea of the game I want to play, and I generate my PC(s) accordingly, but even then I give them a random start. Sometimes the random start takes on a life of its own and I end up with a totally different game than I had intended. If my initial idea still holds interest, I can always try to fit it in as a second adventure or make new characters and have another go.
ReplyDeleteI like going full random for everything & developing something from that as I go
ReplyDeleteThe process of picking a system and tools does a lot to prime the pump for me. It's a blank slate, but I'm already world building before the first letter hits the page. Shameless day dreamer here.
ReplyDeleteUsually I have a character and a setting in mind. This is generally quite loose though and I enjoy the randomness of watching a game world unfold.
ReplyDeleteI've been going more or less "blank slate"--nothing more than a concept of game I want to try and maybe a tool I want play around with. But, I'm becoming increasingly unsatisfied with this approach. Not that it's bad, per se. But it may not be what works best for me in all cases.
ReplyDeleteRight now, I'm playing around a bit with "game books" and soloing modules. Next, I think I'm going to try something involving a better defined setting and concept.
A setting, a character concept w/motivations, and an adventure hook that ties into said motivations.
ReplyDeleteSessions practically run themselves with that much starting detail when mixed with random prompts.
I dislike separating character knowledge from player knowledge, so if I have a story premise in mind, I will frame things such that I know only as much as the character knows. Otherwise, it would be better for me to be the GM and emulate the players .
ReplyDeleteit depends on the situation, sometimes I have an idea for an adventure (or an old rpg adventure which my group never completed in the old days) and I play it, sometimes I'm inspired by my player character, sometimes I play a T&D sandbox to start an adventure, sometimes I just randomly generate the mission.
ReplyDeleteI have trouble with this. If I have a vague story in mind, it's like my brain simply is incapable of thinking ahead and playing out the whole story in a minute or two. So I'm trying to start more with a character I want to try out and a completely randomly generated plot. I would love advice on the whole character vs. player knowledge piece if anyone has it!
ReplyDeleteSo far, it's mostly been about the next game or the engine I want to try, initially. But, like Todd, ideas start forming early on and then the real struggle is restraint.
ReplyDeleteI've had great success with adventure seed generators kicking things off in full force. I was also very inspired by simply generating several NPCs with UNE and imagine the relationships and conflicts between those "personalities".
For me, it's a double edged sword: I love taking random results and making sense of them in context of the story, but it's also a thorn in my side trying to reel myself in from imagining all the possibilities.
Sure, this idea is most likely, but this one is also is also plausible and surprising! Then again, what if... (etc.)
It's fun, but exhausting, and often a poor use of my gaming time. I need to try some frameworks that assist in keeping things reasonable, easing that burden without impacting the fun.
I think I've started to feel that I (player and GM) out to know as much about the world as my character. It's one thing when I'm doing a "Stranger in a Strange Land" game, where the PC just showed up in ADVENTURE TOWN and everything is new and strange to them. Or if they have amnesia (a trope I use more than I should). But, if they have been in the noir city or the elven village or the wretched hive of scum and villainy before, then they should know something about the people who live there. And so should I. Otherwise, I'm left constantly rolling up NPCs for people like their neighbors, and that's stuff I should know about when determining the results of oracles.
ReplyDeleteUsually start with a character and their motivations, then I lay the groundwork with the loom of fate.
ReplyDeleteEric Bright
ReplyDelete"I would love advice on the whole character vs. player knowledge piece if anyone has it!"
When you're trying to avoid that player/character knowledge split, I think that the #1 thing is being conscientious to avoid omniscience. Anything that your character does not know is something that can't be treated as a fact. It's only a possibility that you as a player know about.
In my opinion, you shouldn't even attempt to confirm or deny a fact until your character is in a position to find out. Just leave it hanging there until such a time.
If you want to be even more hardcore, consider this:
Some GMs consider in-game player chatter to be in-character chatter.What if you considered your own in-game mental chatter to be in character mental chatter? In other words, if you find yourself thinking of some possibility, you should treat that thought as something that has also entered your character's mind.
Just remember, though, just because it entered your character's mind, it doesn't mean it's a fact. How your character reacts to these thoughts is in itself an interesting roleplaying exercise. Is she/he going to dismiss them as fanciful flights of imagination? Is she going to keep them in mind as a real possibility?
For me, that's going to be informed strictly by what's already been established as confirmed fact during the initial set up of the game's situation, and in the course of play.
If any of this doesn't make sense, or needs some examples, let me know.
Of course, the simplest way to avoid the split is to take on the role of the GM and emulate the PCs. But then, you have to be careful about that GM vs Player knowledge, because the GM is not omniscient regarding what the PCs are thinking or how they will act. :)
ReplyDeleteEric Bright
ReplyDelete" If I have a vague story in mind, it's like my brain simply is incapable of thinking ahead and playing out the whole story in a minute or two."
Why would you ever want to do that? You can play to find out what happens; you don't actually need to plan out every outcome.
" I would love advice on the whole character vs. player knowledge piece if anyone has it!"
Well there isn't any difference between character knowledge and player knowledge so... :)
If you are having a hard time reconciling that your character knows, for example, how to kill a werewolf, even though they have never actually scene a werewolf before, remember there is such a thing as pop culture. It's the reason why you would know to try a stake/holy water/sunlight to kill sleeping vampire if they actually existed in real life: You haven't been living under a rock and have at least heard of what vampires are and what their weakness are. Same goes for you characters.
And when determining how true something is, and remains, that is only an oracle roll away...
It’s funny, but I’ve just been working on cleaning up a play report for the first game where I really got things together. It was an Edge of the Empire game with Perilous Intersections as the driver/solo engine. For that game and everything I’ve played since, I’ve found that starting with a character, a short term goal, some looming/vague opposition to that goal, and some longer term pressures on the character making the goal urgent tend to give me enough to work with to get started and let the game and story develop. One of the great things about FFG Star Wars is that it integrates pressure on characters that can generate some interesting goals to pursue (via Obligation in EOTE and presumably morality from Force and Destiny [which I’m dying to try out, but haven’t gotten to yet]). And the focus and integration on both overarching and scene goals in Perilous Intersections really made it clear that, for me at least, I need to start with those character goals. Depending on what mood I’m in, I might throw together a character with UNE and then figure out the setting to build around them and the system to use; alternatively big well defined settings can help inform the character and system. It might just be me, but I’ve found if I start out with some kind of story or plot in mind, unless it’s very loose and I’m uncertain where it’s going, I tend to struggle to start and stay interested in playing the game; play to find out what happens is kinda my mantra of late for solo role playing.
ReplyDeleteEric Bright
ReplyDeleteI would love advice on the whole character vs. player knowledge piece if anyone has it!
If it seems pretty obvious that my PC would know something based on their background, then they do. If there is reasonable doubt, I ask the Oracle (or sometimes make a skill roll, depending on the game).
I've spent years being a GM though, so I'm used to compartmentalising things. The NPCs in the world aren't omniscient, and go about their business in ignorance of PC plans and other facts about the world, even though I as the GM know them for certain. I just play my solo PCs the same way. Given that they know X but not Y, they would most definitely attempt Z...
Some games have skills that can be rolled to deduce or anticipate what an NPC will do. D6 Star Wars allows the use of the Investigation skill for such instances.
ReplyDeleteoops, sorry folks. my last comment was meant for another thread. my apologies.
ReplyDeleteSpencer Salyer I'm in the same boat as you, seeing too many interesting choices when rolling through a game. I found that using one of the rules-light engines like Miso forced me to stick to the first two ideas which come to mind. After playing like that for a bit, I found it reigned in my imagination enough to keep the story flowing, which resulted in more interesting stories which actually have finishing points!
ReplyDeleteNow my problem is just taking the time to play. I've got three games going (one I'm blogging) and I'm having difficulty taking the time to move any of them forward. However, I have a good excuse for now: a complete health makeover, where a renewed interest in exercise has come to the forefront of my life. But two weeks of vacation is coming up soon, and I want to get at least one of the stories wrapped up during the holidays!
I almost always have a "neat" idea then I flesh it out through play (usually with mythic gm emulator)
ReplyDeleteThat way I'm also creating content