Do you ever get knee-deep in a solo play and just get bogged down to the point of giving up? If you persevere, how do you get over the hump? Restart or re-write portions of it, taking a new option/path? Do you just drop it and start something new?
I take time off. Actually doing that this week with Swords Without Master. I know what I want to write, but I haven't quite framed it how I would like.
As a general rule, I always go with a light rules system so I can tread carefully over the bog. Sometimes you have to set the dice and mechanics down and narrate your way out.
Other times a new oracle or inspiration device (tarot cards, story cubes, etc.) can help bring some luster back to a game story.
The time off method tends not to work for me, because... Oh! New shiny things! Soooo many things... cough I have to stay focused.
To my shame, I tend to drop and start something new, and then I get annoyed that none of my games last very long. I think it's why I love Todd Zircher's Rewind game. I can always just have my character shoot themselves in the head and start over.
Todd Rokely - Uh, wow, I had never considered the meta element of the rewind. I guess that's a feature? Rules-wise, I wouldn't reward suicide. But, strangely enough, it is a common feature in time loop stories, especially around the mid-point when the character thinks they are trapped.
I guess the problem I've had with solo gaming, is that I have too many character ideas, and not enough time to play. So, I spend a week creating a character a few minutes at a time, and then after the long setup process, I get inspired for another game, character, or genre. So I start over.
I've only had one game manage to make it past the intro chapter. And only 2 actually started play.
I can feel for you, sometimes world building and character creation is more fun than getting deep into the story. It can be much easier to explore the what-if scenarios during brain storming than engage the mechanics of the systems.
Good question, Spencer. in my case the main reason for a stalemate in a solo play is loss of interest because I found something more interesting to develop (adventure, genre, type of game). if the new impulse is very strong then I pause the current game and move on to another, the game in mothballs is always ready to be resumed thanks to the written version (at this moment I have 3 adventures in this situation), I do not feel guilty because I know that I will complete them when the time is right (it has already happened in the past). To avoid the problem of the weakness of the plot instead I use narrative systems that provide many hints and surprises, I think that too generic oracles or random generators can bring more bewilderment and confusion than help to the game
I put things aside for a while. I ususally manage to get back to them eventually.
If things have seriously gotten derailed or just a bit dull, I will strike a scene or two from the record and start over from where things seemed to go wrong. I won't use this to bring PCs back from the dead, just to make the game more interesting. In fact, it's usually when things are going too well for my PCs that I get bored or disocuraged.
Do you mean like it gets to a point where you're not having fun? Or is it more like being stuck as to where to go next?
I tend to push to wrap things up when I'm starting to lose interest, but if I get to the point where it's not fun, I'll just drop it because my time for gaming is so limited.
James Carr - "Swords With No Master"? I like it! My solo framework that I am writing is partially inspired by No Man's Sky, so my working title is No GM's Sky. :-)
For me, at least this go-round, I feel like in a previous adventure I canonized some story elements I'm just not feeling are plausible now, and I'm struggling to come up with rational explanations for those things to make the current adventure (which involves resolution of conflicts set up previously) work.
I take the narrative side of things rather seriously, I suppose, so I'm loathe to put bandaids and duct tape on the thing, rather than take it apart and fix it properly. But, I don't feel like I can make it work acceptably, so it's just stuck and I'm contemplating scrapping the current adventure and continue with the characters at some other place or time.
John Fiore, I try to practice mindfulness like you suggest in all that I do! Im still learning a lot about solo play and RPGs in general, and, like Todd Zircher, I am often distracted by shiny things... of which, there are so, so many...
I'm constantly amazed by the prodigious amounts of creativity surrounding tabletop games, which is both wonderful and overwhelming. My head never quite stops spinning between trying to focus on the thing I've chosen to do versus wanting to explore 10 other things.
Sometimes the only way to get back into a game is to change tools, ie a new oracle, RPG system, or location. Or back up a scene and start again. I do well with pictures that give me inspiration. If I unexpectedly lose inspiration, sometimes I need more art in the same vein.
Spencer Salyer Maybe I am channeling Alex Yari too much, but what if you separate out the disconnect between what the character knows and what you know as the gamer? You can then label it as a faulty world-view on the character's part. (I mean, we do this in real life. How many "well-known facts" are nuanced or plain wrong?) You don't have to know the right reason or motivation for the event, just that it happened.
Another idea stolen from Alex is the idea that what happens in the story may be a story of a story. How many times do things get embellished? Also, how much does a story change if two people describe the same events?
I will reread my actual plays and come across times where the story went in ways that didn't make logical sense or is conflict with something that happened previously, but I thought it made sense when I was playing. I'm fine with this. It does make it harder to rewrite actual plays as full stories, but it doesn't take away from the fun of the original solo game.
Does anyone just say “To heck with it, let’s go GoT on this and start killing off characters”? I imagine that would create enough interesting tension in the game to pull you back in, or at least to quickly put the game to the block so you could move on... 😳😄
I've never killed a character unless a system told me to, but conflict is generally easy: make a character want something, and make it important enough to go against everyone else to achieve it.
Chris Stieha that is something I hadn't really considered in the player vs character knowledge dilemma: what if the character is/was/heard wrong? Or, as I'm going to call it: blame it on the character.
I noticed this before in my play: while I tend to think of what the character would do, I'm still considering that from the omniscient, 3rd person writer perspective. And, really, in that regards, while I'm playing by the game rules, I'm not truly role-playing.
I decided to let that story simmer while I try something else, but I will carry this and the other suggestions with me when I come back to it, and approach it from a new angle. I'm also going to generally apply the idea of thinking more in 1st -person, role-playing the PC, terms, rather than all-knowing observer.
That's more to chew on than I'd originally thought, and has got to be doubly or triply hard in solo play when you've really got 3 factors to separate: character knowledge, player knowledge, and GM omnipotence and which comes with the power to dash the other two against the wall on a whim. Why are we doing this to ourselves??? Hahaha!
// sprit, sprit // "Mrs. Hammond, what are you doing?" "Cleaning your bullets, dear. You wouldn't want someone to get a nasty infection would you?" // sprit, sprit // "They're bullets. I don't think the target cares if they're so clean you can eat off of them." "If someone shoots you with your own gun, you can thank me later." "I... (sigh) carry on, Mrs. Hammond."
Some off us crossed over into a very small community that realize that the wall between character knowledge, player knowledge, and GM omnipotence was a lie and maintaining the illusion is more work than it's worth.
There is so much less stress for me when I'm playing solo after adopting the mindset. I can't just ignore my RL experience when trying to interpret what a fictional character would do/know/feel. I've been shining my essence into that lens the whole time...
To add to Chris Stieha's ideas, if the implausible things you mention happened from your Character's point of view, maybe it's an opportunity for you and your character to question your own perception. Of course, this could likely change the entire tenor of your adventure into something more psychological or surreal like Twin Peaks. Or hey, maybe you're in some Matrix, like that crazy movie you/your character saw, but you just haven't seen beyond the illusion yet. Or, quite simply, the story is more of a B-movie, pulpy fiction (which is totally OK and fun)
On that last point, and I'm really just projecting my own quirks, I think that some of us may sometimes look with too critical an eye back on our ongoing adventures, and thus we start to undermine our confidence in how it's going. It might be better to shut that inner editor up, as one of my creative writing teachers used to advise her students. I'm not saying that this is what's going on in your situation, but your post has created a good opportunity to bring that up.
If you're up for it, and you're not too self conscious, I would like to see what you have so far, and maybe have you point where you think the rails went off? It might prove educational for everyone.
If it helps, I'm putting up what I think are my two most embarrassing actual plays to date :)
I set it aside and started a new Scarlet Heroes game, paying closer attention to player/character /GM knowledge and roles.
For example, I rolled an encounter with a neutral NPC (a Daifu) and they gained initiative, but decided they were indifferent to the character as long as he was doing no harm. The character had no knowledge of the entity, thus, but instead continued about his business unawares (though not without the feeling of being watched).
So, I've read the gdoc & the link. Maybe I fail at reading comprehension, but I'm still not clear on what events you found implausible. :)
I think that the subplot of addiction could be a useful character building element & theme that you could use occasionally. Just accept it as part of the background for now, until it's ripe for you to tackle it.
As far as knowing who the antagonist is, that can mess with the mystery style format of the city adventure, but I still think it can work since the mystery can be about what the antagonist does.
I also am curious about the orb and why the encounter was so easy (story wise). I think that since you already determined it is an antagonist, either you need your character to show he's aware of that, or you need to separate your character and player knowledge accordingly.
Other than that, I really didn't see anything that seemed implausible in what I read. I'm actually kind of confused that someone thinks Shiriss is dead. Did I miss something?
I felt like I hyped up the importance of the orb but then it was relatively easy to obtain. Probably also implausible one man could traverse untold miles of arctic conditions alone.
I then got my feet tangled over the Scarlet Heros urban adventure stuff, trying to fit my story into its framework. A wonder if jumping straight to Conflict scene with Guildmaster confrontation would've been better, or would've ended too quickly to be interesting.
I think it was speculation on the commenter's part that Shiriss could be dead or run away since it was left pretty vague.
Thanks for taking the time to read and analyze, Alex. I do appreciate it and I will return to this story soonly to sort it all out.
Meanwhile, I've got a roving apothecary in a Wilderness adventure, probing some ruins swallowed up in a sinkhole. Thst may turn into a dungeon adventure. But, hopefully produce an urban adventure soon, too, then I can return to Vincent and Shiriss on less shaky Scarlet Heroes ground.
I take time off. Actually doing that this week with Swords Without Master. I know what I want to write, but I haven't quite framed it how I would like.
ReplyDeleteAs a general rule, I always go with a light rules system so I can tread carefully over the bog. Sometimes you have to set the dice and mechanics down and narrate your way out.
ReplyDeleteOther times a new oracle or inspiration device (tarot cards, story cubes, etc.) can help bring some luster back to a game story.
The time off method tends not to work for me, because... Oh! New shiny things! Soooo many things... cough I have to stay focused.
To my shame, I tend to drop and start something new, and then I get annoyed that none of my games last very long. I think it's why I love Todd Zircher's Rewind game. I can always just have my character shoot themselves in the head and start over.
ReplyDeleteJames Carr I haven't looked at SwM in awhile, but does it include solo rules? If not, what are you using to play it solo?
ReplyDeleteTodd Rokely - Uh, wow, I had never considered the meta element of the rewind. I guess that's a feature? Rules-wise, I wouldn't reward suicide. But, strangely enough, it is a common feature in time loop stories, especially around the mid-point when the character thinks they are trapped.
ReplyDeleteTodd Zircher It's both meta-gaming AND genre appropriate!
ReplyDeleteI guess the problem I've had with solo gaming, is that I have too many character ideas, and not enough time to play. So, I spend a week creating a character a few minutes at a time, and then after the long setup process, I get inspired for another game, character, or genre. So I start over.
ReplyDeleteI've only had one game manage to make it past the intro chapter. And only 2 actually started play.
I can feel for you, sometimes world building and character creation is more fun than getting deep into the story. It can be much easier to explore the what-if scenarios during brain storming than engage the mechanics of the systems.
ReplyDeleteChris Bennett No solo rules are included; I'm playing it as written right now, so it's more like interactive fiction than anything.
ReplyDeleteMy next session will incorporate a little of https://dieheart.net/miso-v1/amp/ (Miso) and https://lostpangolin.wordpress.com/tag/bivius-rpg/ (Bivius) into the mix to gamify it a bit. Not sure what to call it: Swords With No Master? XD
Basically, scene setting would be: Option A - Jovial: insert this scene and Option B - Glum: insert this scene. Then proceed as normal. Anytime there'd be a decision to continue or stop, I'd create another pair of options.
dieheart.net - Need Some Rules-Lite Solo RPG Framework for 2017? Here Is Miso RPG
I blame Todd Rokely, seem to try a new game every time I read his solo play blog.
ReplyDeleteGood question, Spencer.
ReplyDeletein my case the main reason for a stalemate in a solo play is loss of interest because I found something more interesting to develop (adventure, genre, type of game).
if the new impulse is very strong then I pause the current game and move on to another, the game in mothballs is always ready to be resumed thanks to the written version (at this moment I have 3 adventures in this situation), I do not feel guilty because I know that I will complete them when the time is right (it has already happened in the past).
To avoid the problem of the weakness of the plot instead I use narrative systems that provide many hints and surprises, I think that too generic oracles or random generators can bring more bewilderment and confusion than help to the game
I put things aside for a while. I ususally manage to get back to them eventually.
ReplyDeleteIf things have seriously gotten derailed or just a bit dull, I will strike a scene or two from the record and start over from where things seemed to go wrong. I won't use this to bring PCs back from the dead, just to make the game more interesting. In fact, it's usually when things are going too well for my PCs that I get bored or disocuraged.
Do you mean like it gets to a point where you're not having fun? Or is it more like being stuck as to where to go next?
ReplyDeleteI tend to push to wrap things up when I'm starting to lose interest, but if I get to the point where it's not fun, I'll just drop it because my time for gaming is so limited.
James Carr - "Swords With No Master"? I like it! My solo framework that I am writing is partially inspired by No Man's Sky, so my working title is No GM's Sky. :-)
ReplyDeleteA lot of great comments and suggestions, all.
ReplyDeleteFor me, at least this go-round, I feel like in a previous adventure I canonized some story elements I'm just not feeling are plausible now, and I'm struggling to come up with rational explanations for those things to make the current adventure (which involves resolution of conflicts set up previously) work.
I take the narrative side of things rather seriously, I suppose, so I'm loathe to put bandaids and duct tape on the thing, rather than take it apart and fix it properly. But, I don't feel like I can make it work acceptably, so it's just stuck and I'm contemplating scrapping the current adventure and continue with the characters at some other place or time.
Do you care to elaborate on specifics?
ReplyDeleteJohn Fiore, I try to practice mindfulness like you suggest in all that I do! Im still learning a lot about solo play and RPGs in general, and, like Todd Zircher, I am often distracted by shiny things... of which, there are so, so many...
ReplyDeleteI'm constantly amazed by the prodigious amounts of creativity surrounding tabletop games, which is both wonderful and overwhelming. My head never quite stops spinning between trying to focus on the thing I've chosen to do versus wanting to explore 10 other things.
Sometimes the only way to get back into a game is to change tools, ie a new oracle, RPG system, or location. Or back up a scene and start again.
ReplyDeleteI do well with pictures that give me inspiration. If I unexpectedly lose inspiration, sometimes I need more art in the same vein.
Spencer Salyer Maybe I am channeling Alex Yari too much, but what if you separate out the disconnect between what the character knows and what you know as the gamer? You can then label it as a faulty world-view on the character's part. (I mean, we do this in real life. How many "well-known facts" are nuanced or plain wrong?) You don't have to know the right reason or motivation for the event, just that it happened.
ReplyDeleteAnother idea stolen from Alex is the idea that what happens in the story may be a story of a story. How many times do things get embellished? Also, how much does a story change if two people describe the same events?
I will reread my actual plays and come across times where the story went in ways that didn't make logical sense or is conflict with something that happened previously, but I thought it made sense when I was playing. I'm fine with this. It does make it harder to rewrite actual plays as full stories, but it doesn't take away from the fun of the original solo game.
Does anyone just say “To heck with it, let’s go GoT on this and start killing off characters”? I imagine that would create enough interesting tension in the game to pull you back in, or at least to quickly put the game to the block so you could move on... 😳😄
ReplyDeleteI've never killed a character unless a system told me to, but conflict is generally easy: make a character want something, and make it important enough to go against everyone else to achieve it.
ReplyDeleteChris Stieha that is something I hadn't really considered in the player vs character knowledge dilemma: what if the character is/was/heard wrong? Or, as I'm going to call it: blame it on the character.
ReplyDeleteI noticed this before in my play: while I tend to think of what the character would do, I'm still considering that from the omniscient, 3rd person writer perspective. And, really, in that regards, while I'm playing by the game rules, I'm not truly role-playing.
I decided to let that story simmer while I try something else, but I will carry this and the other suggestions with me when I come back to it, and approach it from a new angle. I'm also going to generally apply the idea of thinking more in 1st -person, role-playing the PC, terms, rather than all-knowing observer.
That's more to chew on than I'd originally thought, and has got to be doubly or triply hard in solo play when you've really got 3 factors to separate: character knowledge, player knowledge, and GM omnipotence and which comes with the power to dash the other two against the wall on a whim. Why are we doing this to ourselves??? Hahaha!
Because it's fun and creative?
ReplyDeleteWhen in doubt, have someone kick in the door and start spraying bullets.
ReplyDelete// sprit, sprit // "Mrs. Hammond, what are you doing?" "Cleaning your bullets, dear. You wouldn't want someone to get a nasty infection would you?"
ReplyDelete// sprit, sprit // "They're bullets. I don't think the target cares if they're so clean you can eat off of them." "If someone shoots you with your own gun, you can thank me later." "I... (sigh) carry on, Mrs. Hammond."
Not exactly what I had in mind, but amusing! LoL
ReplyDeleteMaybe she's spraying the bullets with teflon.
ReplyDeleteSpencer Salyer
ReplyDelete"Why are we doing this to ourselves???"
Well only some of us are doing that to ourselves.
Some off us crossed over into a very small community that realize that the wall between character knowledge, player knowledge, and GM omnipotence was a lie and maintaining the illusion is more work than it's worth.
There is so much less stress for me when I'm playing solo after adopting the mindset. I can't just ignore my RL experience when trying to interpret what a fictional character would do/know/feel. I've been shining my essence into that lens the whole time...
To add to Chris Stieha's ideas, if the implausible things you mention happened from your Character's point of view, maybe it's an opportunity for you and your character to question your own perception. Of course, this could likely change the entire tenor of your adventure into something more psychological or surreal like Twin Peaks. Or hey, maybe you're in some Matrix, like that crazy movie you/your character saw, but you just haven't seen beyond the illusion yet. Or, quite simply, the story is more of a B-movie, pulpy fiction (which is totally OK and fun)
ReplyDeleteOn that last point, and I'm really just projecting my own quirks, I think that some of us may sometimes look with too critical an eye back on our ongoing adventures, and thus we start to undermine our confidence in how it's going. It might be better to shut that inner editor up, as one of my creative writing teachers used to advise her students. I'm not saying that this is what's going on in your situation, but your post has created a good opportunity to bring that up.
If you're up for it, and you're not too self conscious, I would like to see what you have so far, and maybe have you point where you think the rails went off? It might prove educational for everyone.
If it helps, I'm putting up what I think are my two most embarrassing actual plays to date :)
As The Shock Turns (A Shock RPG melodrama): solorpggamer.blogspot.com - Solo RPG Gamer
A Monomyth inspired monstrosity: http://solorpggamer.blogspot.com/search/label/monomyth-first-try
I might regret this tomorrow, but it's all for the good of the hobby...or is it?
Alex Yari Here's a gdoc of my struggle.
ReplyDeleteI set it aside and started a new Scarlet Heroes game, paying closer attention to player/character /GM knowledge and roles.
For example, I rolled an encounter with a neutral NPC (a Daifu) and they gained initiative, but decided they were indifferent to the character as long as he was doing no harm. The character had no knowledge of the entity, thus, but instead continued about his business unawares (though not without the feeling of being watched).
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rsxprf-rXYTFoXJTwWbtdWG3NNswQZWjxxBzRhCL9Yc/edit?usp=drivesdk
ReplyDeleteCool, I was about to ask for a link. :)
ReplyDeleteHaha.. Got interrupted and I guess I forgot to hit paste before send.
ReplyDeleteSo, I've read the gdoc & the link. Maybe I fail at reading comprehension, but I'm still not clear on what events you found implausible. :)
ReplyDeleteI think that the subplot of addiction could be a useful character building element & theme that you could use occasionally. Just accept it as part of the background for now, until it's ripe for you to tackle it.
As far as knowing who the antagonist is, that can mess with the mystery style format of the city adventure, but I still think it can work since the mystery can be about what the antagonist does.
I also am curious about the orb and why the encounter was so easy (story wise). I think that since you already determined it is an antagonist, either you need your character to show he's aware of that, or you need to separate your character and player knowledge accordingly.
Other than that, I really didn't see anything that seemed implausible in what I read. I'm actually kind of confused that someone thinks Shiriss is dead. Did I miss something?
I felt like I hyped up the importance of the orb but then it was relatively easy to obtain. Probably also implausible one man could traverse untold miles of arctic conditions alone.
ReplyDeleteI then got my feet tangled over the Scarlet Heros urban adventure stuff, trying to fit my story into its framework. A wonder if jumping straight to Conflict scene with Guildmaster confrontation would've been better, or would've ended too quickly to be interesting.
I think it was speculation on the commenter's part that Shiriss could be dead or run away since it was left pretty vague.
Thanks for taking the time to read and analyze, Alex. I do appreciate it and I will return to this story soonly to sort it all out.
Meanwhile, I've got a roving apothecary in a Wilderness adventure, probing some ruins swallowed up in a sinkhole. Thst may turn into a dungeon adventure. But, hopefully produce an urban adventure soon, too, then I can return to Vincent and Shiriss on less shaky Scarlet Heroes ground.